Big Bore Boss build

Looks different than the live link i have. you will ave to show me ow to use it effectively

I want to see a video of this monster

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daveyboy said:

Looks different than the live link i have. you will ave to show me ow to use it effectively

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thats 6.5 you most likely have gen II.

A quick correction on my interpretation of the log. Spark source 4 is because of another table that limits total spark. It's not the result of the knock sensors. Lito schools me whenever I get this stuff wrong. He's really helped with my tuning knowledge and interpretations along the way.

BruceH said:

A quick correction on my interpretation of the log. Spark source 4 is because of another table that limits total spark. It's not the result of the knock sensors. Lito schools me whenever I get this stuff wrong. He's really helped with my tuning knowledge and interpretations along the way.

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So spark source tells you what the knock sensors are doing, or the timing they are pulling, or....?

daveyboy said:

So spark source tells you what the knock sensors are doing, or the timing they are pulling, or....?

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Spark source, fuel source, and torque source tell you what is controlling the function.

All of the codes are listed in the livelink help drop down. It's titled source values.

2 is the borderline knock table and 4 is preignition. I thought that 4 was when the knock sensors were pulling timing but it is actually when the total allowed spark advance table is holding it back.

There are a few different spark tables that are used. One predicts the spark that will result in the most torque, another is for the knock threshold, another limits the maximum allowed spark. The last one is more of a failsafe just in case the spark adders get out of control.

The adder that was active during my pull was the air charge temp. It is used to pull spark when the iat reaches a certain level but it also is used to add spark when the iats are below another level. What got me is that it's labeled as "Spark retard for act" but it is capable of adding or subtracting spark depending on what parameters are entered. I've been fooled by it before but just didn't remember it this time around.

Just about all of the parts are now installed. Today an FRPP intake manifold and throttle body went on.

All that's left in the plan is to put stock mufflers on and take the GTAs off. It's a little too loud with the long tubes and GTAs. I think the stock GT500 mufflers will be exactly what I'm looking for when combined with the Mac headers and pro chamber.

This should be the final look of the motor with the exception of a catch can. I had to temporarily take it off until I can figure out where to put it.

lookin good

Have you driven it yet after swapping the manifold and throttle body?

BruceH said:

This should be the final look of the motor with the exception of a catch can. I had to temporarily take it off until I can figure out where to put it.

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Strut tower?

lethe said:

Have you driven it yet after swapping the manifold and throttle body?

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Just did. It needs a little more dashpot but other than that not much has changed except for logged airflow.

stkjock said:

Strut tower?

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I have a jlt mini can and it's proving to be a pain to locate with the change in geometry.

I was only able to get a partial pull in. Still, it clearly shows more airflow with the same cai and maf xfer function. I added a little more fuel via the base fuel table.

If I can rely on the log results as an indication of differences in airflow then I think the tb and intake are really shining. Notice it hit 41 lbs of airflow at 5000 rpm vs 6100 with the stock equipment. This pull also resulted in a max of 46 lbs but the pull only went to 6300 vs over 7100 on the yesterdays pull that only amounted to 43 lbs of air.

Next stop is the dyno. I'll probably try to hit a local dynojet after work sometime this week.

Todays data:



Yesterday:

Nice

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Is there another dyno locally besides carb connection in kirkland, or is that where you were thinking of?

lethe said:

Is there another dyno locally besides carb connection in kirkland, or is that where you were thinking of?

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I've been to carb connection and will never return. Had a bad experience with Alex.

MSC or Marysville Speed and Custom in Smokey Point. They are a few miles north of 172nd on highway 99. It's a nice clean shop with a dynojet that reads exactly the same as any other dynojet out there. Their dyno guy is named Cam and he's fairly knowledgeable when it comes to engines. They don't do much tuning unless it's a stand alone. They do rent the dyno out though. $125 an hour with a wideband. Their dyno reads just about the same as the Mustang at TMS when it's in "dynojet" mode except for the torque is higher on the dynojet.

Good to know. I only knew about TMS and carb connection but have only gone to TMS. I may have to check out MSC for some baseline pulls when my tuning is done.

Between the airflow and the load values the new manifold and TB definitely are a huge step in the right direction.
I'm pretty excited to see the dyno results of a well though out street engine rather than some mega budget "biggest of everything" build.

RED09GT said:

Between the airflow and the load values the new manifold and TB definitely are a huge step in the right direction.
I'm pretty excited to see the dyno results of a well though out street engine rather than some mega budget "biggest of everything" build.

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Hopefully it will be this week. The motor is showing signs of power. It's doing things that used to happen with a twin screw like unintentional tire spin. I took some commanded torque out of the drive by wire table and it's still doing it.

While driving home today I decided to get on it a little at about 40mph. Guess what, the tires spun and back end wandered around. It wouldn't of been so bad except there was a car right beside me at the time. This was on dry concrete. They also broke loose during normal in town driving when I got on it just a little. I may take some more out of the dbw table. I never had this issue with the older motor even when it was supercharged. That tells me that this is making more torque down low.

Once the e85 dyno is done it's getting switched over to gas for the winter.

Sure sounds like a beast Bruce! I wish I knew what you do.

I'd like to see you build a N/A Coyote...

BruceH said:

Hopefully it will be this week. The motor is showing signs of power. It's doing things that used to happen with a twin screw like unintentional tire spin. I took some commanded torque out of the drive by wire table and it's still doing it.

While driving home today I decided to get on it a little at about 40mph. Guess what, the tires spun and back end wandered around. It wouldn't of been so bad except there was a car right beside me at the time. This was on dry concrete. They also broke loose during normal in town driving when I got on it just a little. I may take some more out of the dbw table. I never had this issue with the older motor even when it was supercharged. That tells me that this is making more torque down low.

Once the e85 dyno is done it's getting switched over to gas for the winter.

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Hey Bruce ...

Now that is my kind of POWER Pal.

Nice ..........


Terry

I visited the dyno today. I've used this dyno before and it's a standard dynojet. The calibration is spot on with any other dynojet I've been on before.

Uncorrected numbers were higher than SAE today. Uncorrected (actual) power was 437/388 rwhp/tq. SAE corrected were 422/375. STD correction was 434/385.

Looking at the curves I think a little more retard in the higher rpms would get me a little more airflow. Horsepower doesn't start dropping off until 6700 rpms. I think I'll leave it alone for now. I have enough data to smooth out the maf curve a little and call it good. This was with 34 degrees of commanded spark and 12.7 commanded a/f. The curve on the chart was taken from the tailpipe.

A few specifics for those who don't want to read through the whole thread:

The motor displaces 322 cubic inches. It's based on a Big Bore Boss modular block from FRPP. The Diamond brand pistons develop 12:1 compression with the FRPP stage 2 heads. Bore is 3.7 and stroke is 3.75. The cam is a special grind that has the same durations and lift as a Comp 127500 with 6 degrees of retard built in and 1 extra degree of lsa at 113. FRPP Intake and Throttle Body. Fuel injectors are surplus Coyote 34lb that have a commanded fuel pressure of 58psi in the upper rpms. GT500 pumps and a 40amp bap are supplying the fuel. Those pumps are left over from when it was supercharged. I'll swap out to a stock pump some time in the future. Mac headers and high flow cats for the exhaust.



Current fuel is E85. I'm hacking out my own tune and did my own motor assembly. It's very street friendly. The next step is to switch to gasoline and fine tune again.

I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.