Caveat Emptor.... Livernois Heads (Pic heavy)

[stang389]

glad to hear everything is working out man. i just meet rick last week and toured there facility. its state of the art.

 

[Back@itagain]

That's good to hear Tre. Like I said before, Mike seems to be one of the only employees in that shop that still have an understanding of customer service.

With that said...any word on those replacement o-rings Mike?

 

[ford20]

Tre, glad to see that things are working in your favor here! Hopefully you will get everything up and running shortly.

If I remember correctly Roush did some of the CNC work for FRPP for a quick minute but Livernois has been doing the job for quite sometime now.



Read through the thread. Im pretty sure it has been posted that Livernois has used the bronze guides in their stage II heads.

The only two heads that Ford Racing makes are the ported heads and the stage 3, the stage 3 have bronze guides. I wasn't talking about the Livernois heads just the Ford Racing ones lol

 

[Back@itagain]

Tre, glad to see that things are working in your favor here! Hopefully you will get everything up and running shortly.



The only two heads that Ford Racing makes are the ported heads and the stage 3, the stage 3 have bronze guides. I wasn't talking about the Livernois heads just the Ford Racing ones lol

Who do you think makes those heads for FRPP? I'll help you out. It's not Ford.

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

That's good to hear Tre. Like I said before, Mike seems to be one of the only employees in that shop that still have an understanding of customer service.

With that said...any word on those replacement o-rings Mike?

Yeah Brian, as soon as he saw this thread he was calling and emailing, wanting to get this set right. He was a big help!

 

[white05gt]

Props to Livernois! Glad to see them come through and make things right.

 

[stang06girl]

Damn, pics look very similair to my passenger side head failure in post #1. I was told it was a valve guide issue by Livernois, they replaced the head. They got my heads and cams this past tuesday. I expect to hear from Mike with their plan Monday or Tuesday.

Did you have any issues getting them fixed?

No, I had them repaired by another shop. I was initally at a loss to figure out why this happened. The head rebuilder at the shop spotted the issue as soon as he popped the springs off. I just didn't fell like dealing with the shipping, and the delays in sending them cross country and back. They replaced the guides and seals, repaired the stem on one valve, and basically done a valve job for 600.00 for the pair.

 

[stang06girl]

are these the big valve FRPP heads or factory ported? i have the factory ported FRPP heads, they are no longer listed in the FRPP catalog and i have been wondering about them.

i know FRPP had a few designations for the HP cylinder heads for the 3V's. they had the factory heads with ported intake/exhaust ports in 12mm plugs, they have the same as before with 14mm plugs and then the oversized valve heads with 14mm plugs?

if you have the factory port valves can you tell me the casting numbers on the front of the heads? i wanna cross check when mine were made as im afraid im going to end up like one of these one day. although i have almost 30k on mine and no problems so far?!?

These are the hi flow, big valve, bronze guide, stiff spring, CNC ported, 1800.00 a piece FRPP heads. Which are repackaged Livernois Stage 3 heads. Leass than a year old, and less than 1100 miles on them. I never even got the damn motor broken in.

 

[stang06girl]

so....what's the consensus here?

are bronze guides in general a bad idea for 3v heads?

have we heard any horror stories about bronze guides from other speed shops like modular head shop, or bbr, fox lake or anyone else?

is it only that livernois seems to be affected because the shear volume of heads they turn out?

No, bronze quides are an excellent idea for damn near any head. Engine manufacturers have been putting bronze guides into cast aluminum and cast iron heads since the 1930's.

The possible issues with bronze guides:

1) Lack of a proper press fit into the head for loose guides in the head
(undersize guide or oversize hole in the head.)

2) Lack of proper clearance between the guide and the valve

3) Lack of lubrication between the guide and the valve.

In other words .... they didn't mike the damn guides or check the bore size in the head.

fyi, got the car running again last night ... hope these heads behave themselves.

Just to add to the o-ring issue, I applied some blue paint to the old o-rings in my intake (KB also uses the stock o-rings), and slid the intake down on a couple of 6mm studs to make an o-ring imprint on the heads. It turned out more messy than I was hoping for, but it did show the imprint. The results were scary enough that I put a bead of silicone on the outside of the o-rings during the actual intake install. ... Think BackAtItAgain's heads are an isolated case? (hint ... look below)

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

With that said...any word on those replacement o-rings Mike?

In talking to others here and testing the heads with a stock manifold, I have a feeling this is due to the tolerance in the aftermarket supercharger manifold. You have to understand these are aftermarket parts and not all made to OEM spec or tolerances. With a stock manifold, it's very close but there are no issues. The heads are made large for a reason.. for max performance.

-Rick

 

[wabirch]

Glad this is working out.

 

[Department Of Boost]

In talking to others here and testing the heads with a stock manifold, I have a feeling this is due to the tolerance in the aftermarket supercharger manifold. You have to understand these are aftermarket parts and not all made to OEM spec or tolerances. With a stock manifold, it's very close but there are no issues. The heads are made large for a reason.. for max performance.

After reading this post I have just a couple questions:

1) Since Livernois has CNC’d these cylinder heads to such a tight tolerance not leaving any room for other variables based off the factory intake manifold, is it Livernois’ position that only the factory manifold can be guaranteed to seal properly with the Livernois cylinder heads?

2) Since the cylinder heads were designed using these tight tolerances based of the factory manifold, how do you make “max power” when the factory manifold is the limiting factor in this equation?

3) According to the Livernois website, you guys sell and install the FRPP/Whipple, Magancharger, etc. to your customers.

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/2005%252d2010-Mustang-GT-Performance-Package-3.html

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/2005%252d2010-Mustang-GT-Performance-Package-2.html

What do you tell these guys when their manifolds don’t seal to your cylinder heads? I assume that you have put a set of your heads and a PD blower on the same car???

I guess Ford will put the Blue Oval seal of approval on anything now a days….

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

Man now you guys have me worried about the heads sealing with my C & L intake manifold.....FUckers!

Although I believe I saw a test that C&L did with the Livernois Stage II's and there were no reported issues. Still, twice bitten, now shy.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Man now you guys have me worried about the heads sealing with my C & L intake manifold.....FUckers!

Although I believe I saw a test that C&L did with the Livernois Stage II's and there were no reported issues. Still, twice bitten, now shy.

We've used the C&L and FRPP manifold with the stage 2&3 heads and have never had issues with them.

-Rick

 

[Department Of Boost]

We've used the C&L and FRPP manifold with the stage 2&3 heads and have never had issues with them.

-Rick

How about answering my questions? Or are those too hard?

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

We've used the C&L and FRPP manifold with the stage 2&3 heads and have never had issues with them.

-Rick

We will see. The new heads will be inspected thourghly. To include the measurement of the ports in relation to the C and L manifold. I'll report results.

How about answering my questions? Or are those too hard?

I'll take a guess: Livernois Flow Bench racing?

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

I have a bad gut feeling about this.........

 

[TheKurgan]

It would be nice to see pics of the cam tower misalignment in action with either pics or better yet, a video. This seems to be what Livernois is pointing the finger at.

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

It would be nice to see pics of the cam tower misalignment in action with either pics or better yet, a video. This seems to be what Livernois is pointing the finger at.

Yeah, I agree, considering the first failure I had this was not the explanation given. (although the symptoms were similar) Now its something different and they admit fault yet they try and backhandly throw it on the installer. Interesting indeed. But I will still give Livernois credit for replacing the heads. They "Manned" up where other vendors usually won't. Thank God its not a BBR Hellion system im having trouble with.

 

[05stroker]

Yeah, I agree, considering the first failure I had this was not the explanation given. (although the symptoms were similar) Now its something different and they admit fault yet they try and backhandly throw it on the installer. Interesting indeed. But I will still give Livernois credit for replacing the heads. Thank God its not a BBR Hellion system im having trouble with.

Oh and Mike and you say you have nothing to do with the cylinder head department?

http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschropp

"I am working at Livernois Motorsports in charge of the engine, cylinder head, machine and CNC cylinder head departments. I handle the majority of new product development at the company. Many of the products and components I designed or helped design are the industry standard in their respective areas. "


Hmmmmmmm....