I would definitely love have powerful cars within reasonable compliance. I think road driven cars allowed to use approve performance parts is reasonable but competitions cars shouldn’t be in the conversations at all.
I would love to daily drive my compliant car with bolt ons and swap all out parts for the track.
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IMHO! The EPA is more concerned with street driven vehicles not being in compliance, especially when it comes to removing any portion of the "OEM" emission control devices which technically has always been illegal from the very start, to begin with anyhow. As for vehicles used strictly for competition use only! Yes, I totally agree they shouldn't be a factor at all, being as they're in a controlled, off-road environment.
The Livernois video tells me they are positioning themselves to "play by the rules". That's how they see themselves surviving and making profit where they can.
There are fights you can win and fights you can't.
When a car is removed from street use completely, I am against the EPA actions. If it is still used on the streets, you gotta stay compliant.
Yes, when a car is removed from street use completely, I totally agree against the EPA actions, but in favor if still used on the streets, no doubt about it!
This is getting beyond stupid. Whether it has oem cats..or hi-flow cats, who cares ? LT's are more efficient than oem exhaust manifold, again who cares.
If you have a blower on the car, how often is it actually used on the street...a few seconds here and there. I can feather the gas pedal, so it's not quite into boost..and it pulls like a mofo on the hwy. 30-50 mph on the hwy comes damned fast, so does 0-100 mph...or 50-75 mph. With the blower on, it comes up a lot faster. The hi flow cats are doing their job.
As far as I can see, they are making a big issue about .... nothing. It will cost a fortune to enact compliance..and for what ? A non issue to begin with.
'They' would be better off to slap a carbon tax on folks with their wood burning stoves and fireplaces.
How exactly are LT's more efficient than OEM if they're unable to pass OBDII emissions testing? Same also applies to high-flow cats as well, unless they're Kooks high-flow green cats in which they don't always pass OBDII emissions testing either!
He was been sarcastic not literally using stove on cars.
The point is that we other support the movement or sell our hobbies. How about that?
EPA doesn’t really care about clean air or they would of done real homework to be fair all across.
It is al politics and the only way tot fight is with representation starting with us and these forums not bowing down.
Yes, with this bunch of mentality that we should quit we might losses our right to mod our cars for sport!!!
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Well there's a gray line between modifying cars strictly for competition and for the street. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I totally disagree with the EPA on vehicles used for off-road/competition use only, but do agree that street driven vehicles should be in compliance with the EPA.
Nobody is saying you can not mod your car. They are saying you can not disable/remove the emissions control devices and functions. That is all. If you have to do that to mod your car, you should rethink what you're doing. You can still improve performance without disabling/removing the emissions control devices and functions.
Just think about it. If they are only doing an emissions systems readiness test (like Upstate/Western NYS), you can do anything including making it run dirty as long as the system is ready and no faults are lit up. The control systems just need to be present and functioning without fault codes. Everything else does not matter.
^^^^ This I agree 100%
That’s what is currently proposed or in act. The bad thing about that is EPA going after manufactures to stop the developing of parts to ensure that prices happens. It don’t matter it you have the control items in the car.
There is many ways to go about it. I germany they are very strict but as long as you pass emissions and have no lights and have catalytic you good. Not legally but they don’t know and don’t care.
Or we can actually be clean and still been able to mod. High performance pets legal. Some sort of CARB E.O. Concept but for everybody and not so strict.
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Once again, the EPA is only concerned when it comes to removing any portion of the "OEM" emission control system which technically has always been against federal law, to begin with. Therefore, nobody is saying that you cannot modify your car. If adding performance cams, heads, CAIs and superchargers? as long as they pass visual and emissions testing, then no problem. What do you think cars such as the 2020 Shelby GT500 and Dodge Challenger "Hellcat and Demon" come factory equipped with? they all include factory performance heads, cams, CAI's and blowers which have no problem in being 100% street legal and in compliance with the EPA.
Right but the problem is the EPA has no grey area. On the most technical term if they follow the law to a T, if you alter the tune, that's altering the way the car was factory certified as emissions compliant. That could technically be seen as illegal.
Hell I think it was you that mentioned the 05-09 had emissions equipment that had to be moved to put a CAI, under the EPA guidelines that would be illegal
That is total nonsense! As long as you're not altering/removing any portion of the factory emission control devices and the vehicle passes the OBDII emissions test? a performance calibration tune has nothing to do with it, unless it somehow disables the emission/02 monitors in which case wouldn't pass OBDII emissions testing, to begin with anyhow.
You might want to refresh on the information that has been developing about the industry. It is exactly what is been proposed if you dig in the information and legislation proposed.
If you touch just about anything is not allowed. Anything changed on the stock configuration from factory. Specially if it needs any type of software configuration i.e. tune, is illegal.
So what do you really think is going to happen when companies will lot be able to sell just about anything?
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Once again, complete nonsense! As long as you're not altering/removing any portion of the factory emission control devices and the vehicle passes the OBDII emissions test? a performance calibration tune has nothing to do with it, unless it somehow disables the emission/02 monitors in which case wouldn't pass OBDII emissions testing, to begin with anyhow.
Let’s put it in perspective.
High flow cats> no
CAI> no unless no tune=why bother
Catch can>no
High performance heads>no
Cams>no
And the list goes on. If we think that the aftermarket world will go and spend that kind of money let’s just get used to them been gone unless is a large corporation with large capital to fund that development and connects to have the certification.
Mean while Fu%*#K all the companies that have been supporting us this whole time.
Let me list a few to refresh memories:
Lund Racing
VMP
TPS
JDM
L&M
JPC
They might be able to survive but maybe no.
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So let's indeed put it in perspective.
Once again, the EPA is only concerned when it comes to removing any portion of the "OEM" emission control system which technically has always been against federal law, to begin with. Therefore, nobody is saying that you cannot modify your car. If adding performance cams, heads CAIs and superchargers? as long as they pass visual and emissions testing, then no problem. What do you think cars such as the 2020 Shelby GT500 and Dodge Challenger "Hellcat and Demon" come factory equipped with? they all include factory performance heads, cams, CAI's and blowers which have no problem in being 100% street legal and in compliance with the EPA.
Wrong. If you live in a rural area without public transportation, you need a car.
I do agree that if you live in a rural area without public transportation, it is indeed a necessity to have a car, however, you can survive without owning or having one, such as relying on friends/family members or neighbors that do own cars.
